Curse

Siver · Jul 18, 2011, 09:13 PM // 21:13

.............................

Khaal · Jul 18, 2011, 10:49 PM // 22:49

I'm not really sure that smiting is as weak as people like to say. I did a VQ the other day and we had four monks (2 heal, 2 smite) and we rolled that place. I was blown away by our damage output.

akelarumi · Jul 18, 2011, 11:31 PM // 23:31

The main problem with monks is that they are ok in everything:

A monk can solo farm, but others can farm better.
A monk can be a damage dealer caster, but others can do that better.
A monk can heal, but others can heal too.
A monk can protect, so can others.

For the last two I find it a lot more apealing when playing with other people. When playing alone I want to deal damage.

But every profession has it specialisation, and when monks are to be outstanding in anything, I think that it should be healing/protting and that can use a buff. The smiting prayers are ok for solo farming and playing with hero's (and henchman) as they are now.

chuckles79 · Jul 18, 2011, 11:48 PM // 23:48

First off, RoJ says hi.

Second, who rolls a healer and wants DPS output?

I think the original thinking on smiting prayers were primary for enemy AI use. Monks are the best and most versatile healers and protters in the game and quite frankly do not need an offensive role.

Chin up though, ANet has heard your cries and won't stick anyone with a thankless "team healer" job in GW2

All that naysaying being said, I found your suggestions well balanced and well thought out.

Vazze · Jul 18, 2011, 11:51 PM // 23:51

You can use smiting in at least 3-4 strong offensive builds: RoJ, Mo/N buff bitch, AP/smite-pve has a few pretty good versions, plus you have the smiters boon build. This is a lot more than what most professions can do with their weaker attrib lines. Compare that to a blood necro or a channeling rit nuker.
(Hint-hint: try using Balthazar's Aura with Ausp. Inc.: free BA and tons of energy; what you are suggesting here is almost a nerf to BA.)

Siver · Jul 19, 2011, 01:48 AM // 01:48

........................................

Reformed · Jul 19, 2011, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Monks (and Eles) need their proficiencies moved back in line with class concepts, not widening the gap and making monks into even better nukers.

By the way...the closest direct comparison for DoT would probably be Ray of Judgement versus Savannah Heat. Ray wins every time unless the target happens to be among the rare category of things immune to burning.

Essence Snow · Jul 19, 2011, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siver

As we all know monks have no energy management them self's, they rely on secondary professions for this.

I was unaware of this......

Castigation Signet
Defenders Zeal
Balth Spirit
Essence Bond
Healer's Covenant
Blessed Signet
Air of Enchantment
Healing Light
Scribes Insight
Selfless Spirit
Zealous Benediction

Lanier · Jul 19, 2011, 04:21 AM // 04:21

I dont really think smiting needs tweaking. There are already many powerful spells like smite condition/hex, reversal of damage, strength of honor, judges insight, etc. Sure there are crappy spells, and sure they could use some buffs, but there are far more pressing things that the GW1 team should be working on. First, they need to spice up paragons. Second, they need to do the same to rangers. Third, they need to make one of the ele pve only skills a maintainable +armor penetration enchantment. Fourth, they need to nerf all of the obviously OP crap like SoS and spirits in general, damage from death nova, AP or the eotn PvE skills that AP is used to abuse, SY, etc.

In short, while there is nothing wrong with buffing the crappy smite spells, I would like to see anet focus on the important stuff first. The monk profession as a whole is one of the best balanced professions in the game - I would like to see other professions either buffed (para, ranger, ele) or nerfed (necro, rit, mesmer) first. Then we can see where the overall power of the monk profession relates to that of the other professions, and can proceed from there as to how precisely to change smiting.

Of course, this probably won't happen for another 3 or so years (if some of it happens at all).

Siver · Jul 19, 2011, 04:54 AM // 04:54

.........................

Dot Rotten · Jul 19, 2011, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Wasn't there talk of smiting prayers being buffed anyway? I thought I saw something on wiki a while ago...

Smiting is seriously overshadowed by the healing/protection side of monks, it pretty much always has been.

I notice some people say that others can heal/prot, but none as good as the monk. Buff smiting by all means, but I can imagine monks will always be the preferred healer in most situations rather than spikers...

unless of-course they add some faceroll buff that overpowers mesmerspikes etc.

gremlin · Jul 19, 2011, 11:29 AM // 11:29

The main problem with smiting monks imo is lack of targets in the game.

There were a decent number of undead in the catacombs of presearing then you meet comparatively few till your heading for the temple of ages.

I haven't really considered a smiting build for my monk because anything they can kill others can kill just as well.

Some undead vulnerable only to holy damage would be nice as would putting all spirit demonic or summoned creatures into their area of expertise.

I would love to go roaming nightfall beating up on abbadons minions or maybe even the destroyers in eye with a dedicated in your face smiting monk.
Get back to your plane of existence foul creatures.

oh and forget about monks healing animations that's just silly

Swingline · Jul 19, 2011, 01:14 PM // 13:14

I happen to agree the smiting prayers line is in need of some attention. The problem is you can't make the smiting prayers line better than an eles bc then the balance between professions will be skewed. What the smiting prayers line should do is offer a break from healing/proting and offer some sort of damage if other damage professions are lacking.

I think what your forgetting is that most direct smite skills deal holy damage which is armor ignoring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siver

Balthazar's Aura 10 energy 20 recharge
For 10 seconds, foes adjacent to target ally take 10...30 holy damage each time they attack or cast a spell.

Its time to make this skill viable again but 10 energy is too low. 15 energy and 25 recharge are good trade offs for 300+ armor ignoring damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siver

Bane Signet 15 recharge
Target foe takes 30...60 holy damage. If target foe was attacking, that foe is knocked down.

This skill is used for its KD effect rather than damage unless its being used against undead. Instead of what you proposed I would make it deal 20...50 damage to the target. That target and 0..2 adjacent foes are KDed if attacking. 1/2 sec cast time and 15 second recharge. You now have a decent ccounter against the 3 melee problem in GvG and HA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siver

Kirin's Wrath/Symbol of Wrath 5 energy 20 recharge
For 5 seconds, target foe and adjacent foe's take 8...27 holy damage each second.

I can see this one working fine. might need to reduce the damage by just a little bit tho.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siver

Zealot's Fire 10 energy 30 recharge
For 5..15..20 seconds, whenever you use a skill that targets a foe, all foes adjacent to your target are struck for 5...29 fire damage and you lose 2 Energy.

I don't get why you changed this one. You claim that there are no spammable smite spells when there's Reversal of Damage which is on a 3 second recharge, 1.5 a lot of the time with a 40/40 set. Leave this skill alone IMHO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siver

Smite 5 energy 15 recharge
Deals 10...55 holy damage. Deals 10...45 more holy damage if target is attacking.

have it deal 10...55 damage and 10...25 damage against attacking foes. 5 energy, 8 second recharge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siver

Holy Strike 5 energy 10 recharge
Target foe and up two adjacent foes move 90% slower (for 4 seconds). While moving they take 5-15-20 fire damage a second.

I like the 3 target idea but not the rest. monks shouldn't have a snare. make it 10 energy, 2 second cast time, 20 second recharge, target foe and up to 2 adjacent foes take 30...75 holy damage and burn for 3 seconds. You would get 2 of these since stonesoul strike is a copy of holy strike.

Another spell that needs attention is smiters boon. You shouldnt be healing a decent amount while redirecting damage(proting and dealing damage). It also needs to have a place in pvp somewhat.

aspi · Jul 19, 2011, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dot Rotten

Wasn't there talk of smiting prayers being buffed anyway? I thought I saw something on wiki a while ago...

Smiting is seriously overshadowed by the healing/protection side of monks, it pretty much always has been.

I think you are right about the smiting line being given some attantion by the live team. I think it was in one of the updates from one of Anet members on wiki somewhere. Can't find it now though.

Xiaquin · Jul 19, 2011, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siver

Most if not all monks like to go damage from time to time. It's a nice break from watching the party menu and compass the whole time.

Know your role. Monk is all about support, native damage potential needs to be restricted and keep within a niche. If you want that extra ability, that's what secondaries are designed to provide. You're forgetting the entire point of a secondary profession is to provide diversity.

Quote:

Indeed RoJ is powerful... But as any monk knows, running Mesmer secondary is the only viable option to do so. No other professions are locked into a secondary professions, to be able to run a native(in this case a monk) elite skill.

Barrage. A rit can get higher DPS with Splinter Weapon if it wants (but heck, many people have sworn off the bow completely in PvE).

So, I don't exactly feel the OP pain. I mean they're nice suggestions, I especially would like to see energy cost and recharges examined on some skills, but, this is hardly something to get the attention of the Live Team. I've heard buzz that SP could be on the (short) list for the LT, and if it is, ahead of the wealth of other imbalances, I'm going to scream.

Missing HB · Jul 19, 2011, 04:52 PM // 16:52

To be honest, revamping smite prayers won't do anything at all in both PvE and PvP. It's still possible to farm some places in PvE, thus revamping will lead to an other too OP farm ( sure, why not do it considering there are already tons of OP farms but well....)...

And for PvP, that's the same problem as water eles, paragons, some necro/mesmer skills : almost all skills are used for support and to serve a purpose in a team build , unlike invoke ele or dervishs.....
That's pretty much the problem... they stated that the game was about team-play, yet they make some skills which allow you to 123456 on any target almost and kill it in 2 sec

NerfHerder · Jul 19, 2011, 05:43 PM // 17:43

As long as there is a PvP skill split and the smite line does not lend itself to secondary abuse, /signed.

Some of the more powerful revamped smite skills could easily have a divine favor req, be placed in divine favor, or scale up much higher at 12 att and above, in order to prevent secondary abuse.

Siver · Jul 19, 2011, 05:58 PM // 17:58

............................

chuckles79 · Jul 19, 2011, 06:20 PM // 18:20

I hear a lot of complaining about having to run mesmer secondary when you smite.

Try playing a paragon that has no synergy with anything but a warrior (oh yeah, you could Empath Removal, Expel Hexes, or bring a pet; but why would you do so?)

Swingline · Jul 19, 2011, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siver

IF you notice the skill would not have the same functionality. It would no longer do 300+ damage. 10 energy is trade off for the conditional damage

I missed that part of your post. TBH though I overall don't like this skill at all in game or our suggestions for it. Ten second AoE spells are never used for a reason and that's because usually the AI of mobs are running out about 1-3 seconds after its casting. I really think this skill should be used as some type of utility instead of damage with your suggestions to the 5 second AoE spell kirins wrath and symbol of wrath.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siver

My original thinking was . "Its not like the damage it's self is low. Its that Smiting has a lack of AoE to very effective. If I change this skill, to cause AoE while using single target spells, at least the dps can be justified."

It actually works quite well if you can manage the energy drain. With the current skill in game and the 3 target ally spells RoD, smite cond. and smite hex you are doing good damage and offering some prot and utility. The current skill also has a strong place in JQ which is one of my favorite pvp formats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siver

Smiters boon was nerfed when I took a year off from the game. I have no personal history as too why it was nerfed. If someone could enlighten me, I may be able too come up with a feasible replacement .

Smiting monks are like paras, they are overpowered when there is a team of them. Smiters Boon was nerfed during a testing phase and never reverted. Its probably remained in its current pvp state to prevent a plague to the meta.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckles79

I hear a lot of complaining about having to run mesmer secondary when you smite.

Try playing a paragon that has no synergy with anything but a warrior (oh yeah, you could Empath Removal, Expel Hexes, or bring a pet; but why would you do so?)

Monks having to run mesmer as a secondary is a different story than paragons with warrior. When running a pve RoJ build a good bar will have more mesmer skill than actual smiting skills. Auspicious Incantation to get energy from a costly skill such as arcane echo, arcane echo to copy RoJ and mantra of resolve to make sure you get both RoJs off. Even with a smite update mesmer will always be the best secondary for a monk so they will still share the paragons pain.